Ear flops over head The good thing is you still have plenty of time to correct this. But it is the hardest to correct. You have to post the ears in a 10 2 positon like on a clodk to pull the 2nd ear out a little. This should correct it. I also use a figure 8 brace across the top of the head to hold the ear in that postion so it can't break over.Apr 12, 2024 · Doberman ear cropping is no different, and back in the 1600s, their ears were cropped for functionality. As a breed that has always been used for protection, ear cropping was a way to increase the ... Feb 3, 2014 · Two surgical procedures -- ear cropping and tail docking-- have long been routine in certain breeds like Dobermans, German shorthaired pointers, and schnauzers. But an increasing number of experts ... Ear length and style of crop are personal decisions made by breeders and owners. However, this trend of going longer and longer has its concerns. I have had and been around Dobermans since the 70's and most people were done posting at or before 6 months.An ear crop chart is a visual guide veterinarians and breeders use to determine the appropriate shape, size, and angle of cropped ears for specific dog breeds. The chart typically includes illustrations or photographs of cropping styles, measurements, and guidelines for achieving the desired look. Ear crop charts are intended to provide a ...one of my dobes had just his ears cropped today at exactly 14 weeks. medium cropped. After reading some articles on the internet, i found out that it should be done at 7-10 weeks of age. and in some instances, at 12 weeks of age. My vet's explanation however was that, what matters is not the age but how the ears are developed prior to the time ...Feb 17, 2011. #4. A military crop is really not for the Doberman - it is a crop designed for the pit bulls breeds. It does not fit the Doberman head at all. I woulld agree with DeDe take some pictures you like of a nice medium crop and in the long run you will be much happier with the outcome and the baby will look much better.You post a pic of your pup's ears which is concerning, and you state you have concerns about your vet and the crop he did. 2. Folks here agree with you there is cause for concern and offer possible solutions. 3. You defend your vet. My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today~Richard Adams .One Doberman has ears that are two different lengths and another one has very jagged edges. Powell only gives three options for cropping—short, medium, and tall. But we have no choice on bell, shape, or style. Allbrick pretty much does a short military crop only and also doesn’t give options for shape or style.4 posts · Joined 2018. #1 · Oct 4, 2018. I have a dober boy who has a failed crop. Both ears flop. I have experience with crops and posting so I am confident when I say I don't believe his crop will stand. I have looked into multiple "fixes" from stringing, cross stitching to implants. I want to know WHERE you got your dobe's crop "fixed" and ...October 13, 2023 by DR HARUN, DVM. Dogs' ears are cropped primarily for cosmetic reasons and to adhere to breed standards. Cropping involves surgically removing a portion of the ear to create a specific shape or appearance. This practice is most commonly seen in certain breeds like Doberman Pinschers, Boxers, and Great Danes.For instance, a lot of people used to believe that cropping a dog’s ears allows them to hear better, which is important if you use your dog for hunting or work. However, the truth of the matter is that cropping Doberman’s ears is mainly to achieve a certain look. Many people believe cropped ears cause a Doberman to look more proper, tough ...Jun 29, 2013 · i would love to see pictures of cropped ears . looking into dobermans for a while and i am a VEERY picky person , everything has to be perfect . pictures of long , long-medium , medium , medium-short and short whatever you got or pictures you can pull from the internet and help me out . ive been stuck between the styles because i know each vet has their different opinions of what a short crop ... "Some believe ear cropping can reduce the incidence of ear infections, but this has largely been debunked." Reasons why Doberman ears cropping unnecessary. Ear cropping and other aesthetic procedures in dogs have lost popularity in recent years. Pet care professionals now caution dog parents against ear cropping, noting the following ...The ear crop is a cosmetic procedure where the ear is skillfully trimmed away allowing the remaining ear trainable to stand. In order to create an attractive ear crop, the ear structure needs to be evaluated. Dr. Little will evaluate the head shape and size, and crop style that is desired. The ear crop takes an artist's hand unlike other ...Doberman ear cropping is very common. Ear cropping is a surgical procedure in which a portion of the dog's ear is removed, producing ears that stand erect. The procedure is most often performed on Doberman puppies at around 8 to 12 weeks of age. The ears are trimmed and the edges are stitched.30837 posts · Joined 2007. #13 · Jan 24, 2008. When I showed my dogs they were well liked by most other breeders, but, all commented on how short my dogs crop was. My line has, as the Canadian standard states, Ears, uncropped, should be small and neat and set high on the head. So I consider a small ear correct.Take the posts out first thing in the morning and see if they are still standing as well that evening. You have to use your best judgement, but if they are still standing and haven't softened at all you could probably try an over-nighter. At the first sign of softening then immediately post again.17554 posts · Joined 2005. #4 · Sep 18, 2009. You need to talk to the vet who will be doing the crop. The preference for most vets is between 8 and 10 weeks. Some will want to do it a little earlier (7 weeks) and others a little later (12 weeks). Most vets will not crop earlier than 7 weeks (the ear is actually not at full size and there are ...May 1, 2023 ... In this video, we're going to show you how to ear crop and tail dock your Doberman Pinscher. Ear cropping is when you cut off the tips of ...Ear cropping of Doberman Pinscher puppies is routinely performed under general anesthesia between 7-12 weeks of age by a licensed veterinarian. Modern anesthesia and analgesia are required. When performed by a veterinarian using modern techniques of surgery and analgesia ear cropping is a minor procedure that puppies recover from quickly and ...EarTrim.com. Houston's Ear Cropping Clinic. We are the number one ear crop clinic in the entire World . 24/7 Contact: 713-818-7956. Save this number to your phone, you'll never know when you'll need it. Lowest prices in the country guaranteed. Unbelievable knowledge and quality, thousands of crops per year, no one else in the world comes close.Most of these vets have a 2-4 week wait for the cropping appointment. You might not be able to get her ears cropped since she is already 10 weeks old and many won't crop after 12 weeks of age. Again... I'm sure others will have input on cropping age. Dobies 71.For instance, a lot of people used to believe that cropping a dog’s ears allows them to hear better, which is important if you use your dog for hunting or work. However, the truth of the matter is that cropping Doberman’s ears is mainly to achieve a certain look. Many people believe cropped ears cause a Doberman to look more proper, tough ...StarlaineK9. Put some glue on the ear tips then dip them in the tungsten powder. The weight will hold the ear down. You can also take two strips of tape and skin bond them to each ear (one on the top and one on the underside towards the tip and run the strip under the dogs chin to the other ear and tape/glue it.Louis Doberman originally cropped as they were originally bred for protection. Their big floppy ears made it easy for other dogs to grab. Also, in addition to aesthetics, having cropped ears helps to keep them from getting infected and dirty. Floppy ears are more prone to ear yeast infection.In Las Vegas area, Dr. Arn & Dr. Lingwall are great & they specialize in Dobermans. They have Dobermans as well. They do great ear crops & I've seen different types of crops as well. There's a book with different photos of crops they've done that you can choose from. Their ear cropping technician helps out also, her name …Ear cropping is an elective surgery currently implemented in approximately 20 dog breeds, including Dobermans, Great Danes, & others. 6623 East Blue Lupine Rd, Palmer, AK 99645. Call Us 907-745-8437. ... Ear cropping was implemented in different breeds for different reasons, most prominently hunting, fighting, and working breeds. ...Cropping is illegal in norway, and you cannot show or compeate (IPO /Schutzhund) with a dog that has cropped ears. I go cropped because I am too, and I'm fine. That is the breed standard according to the AKC in the US, it is not the breed standard globally, in fact, many countries have banned the practice. source.A Doberman with uncropped ears has a different look. Ear cropping in Dobermans adds to the breed's identity and personality. Cropped ears are a common way to recognize a Doberman pinscher. Many people believe it contributes to the breed's striking look. The shape and length of an ear crop can vary. The short crop, the medium crop, and the ...Doberman ear cropping, aesthetic practice, different types, styles, hunting, working activities, ear injuries, functional reasons, search keywords, Doberman ...The ear cropping should be done by a veterinarian with experience in ear cropping. To learn more about the ear cropping procedure in dogs, go to Ear Cropping for Dogs. A Doberman whose ears are not cropped takes on a very different appearance. In Dobermans, ear cropping contributes to the breed’s identity and character.When you take his ears down, just clean them up and let then dry out and immediately repost. Just leave them down for maybe 20-30 mins to dry out. You will have to post till he is thru teething at six months at least and maybe longer. Some people have to post past a year but that is usually with a long show crop.Jun 26, 2011 · Cropping is an art. If a vet wants to crop at 3 months you are most likely going to be looking at a terrible crop for as long as you have the dog. Most vets that actually know how to crop do it at 7 thru 9 wks with most cropping at 8 wks. Look Grant up on the internet, take my advice, and go to him. Ear crop Length. My SO has had dobes for about 15yrs now, he had a dobe when I met him who has since passed away. I got my own dobe 6yrs ago in april, my dobe is a blue and tan with natural ears who I got from a BYB and yes I know now 6yrs later that was a mistake. The BYB was a littler sketchy but I had puppy fever and so far we have not had ...1. Improved Sound Localization. 2. The Traditional Doberman Look. 3. Less Ear Infections. 4. It’s the Breed Standard. 5. Easy Recognition as a Doberman. 6. Better for Guard or …If you're interested in turning your love of crops and plants into a business, there’s no shortage of opportunities. Here are the most profitable crops in 2023. If you buy somethin...Nov 15, 2023 · The Debate Surrounding Ear Cropping Different perspectives on ear cropping. The practice of ear cropping in dogs, including Dobermans, is a topic of ongoing debate among dog owners, breeders, veterinarians, and animal welfare organizations. Let’s explore some of the arguments commonly presented for and against ear cropping: Arguments for Ear ... VZ-Doberman. 6942 posts · Joined 2009. #2 · Jan 6, 2013. Welcome to DT. If you use the search engine on this site you will find croppers hopefully within your area. E.May 31, 2008 · By comparison, here are my dogs' crops. Both were done by Dr. Ann Platt - but crop #3 was a modified show crop on naturally very short ears, and crop #4 is a show crop. I much prefer these crops to #1 and #2, but these ears were done by an expert. Crop #3: Crop #4: BIMBS MBAIMBS U-CH Kaylee BN RN CAX TT CGC TDI. Normally, a Doberman's ears will be cropped when the dog is between 7 and 9 weeks old. There are some veterinarians who will do it as late as 12 weeks old, but that is not as common. You certainly do not want to have it done any later than that as the damage will be severe.Hi all, quick questions about ear cropping. We've done a lot of research and just wanted to double check with everyone. We picked up our baby girl today from her cropping surgery yesterday 3/31. The vet wants us to keep her ears taped up for 2 weeks until follow up April 13th.The only person that I would let crop my dogs ears in that area is: Patricia Edwards, DVM Rivercliff Animal Hospital 4776 Stone Mountain Highway Lilburn, GA 30047 (770) 972-6270 Ear Cropping Specialist Full Service Small Animal Practice Personal Breeds: Doberman Pinchers, Briards Home Make the drive and invest the money.Dr. Jan Crowe is one of the go-to ear crop surgeons in the Southeast. She has worked on dogs from NY, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma and all over. She has done all styles of crops on Dobermans, Giant Schnauzers, Great Danes but also Boxers, Beauceron, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino , Pit Bulls, Bully's. Cuts, styles and lengths are by the parent's choice. Go-to for reconstruction surgery, TempaStays and ...Removed post to reply to the same topic under the Ear Cropping sub-forum post. ... Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums. 1.8M posts 54.1K members Since 2005 A forum community dedicated to doberman owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, health, behavior, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!Different Doberman Ear Crops. Three types of ear crop are available for Dobermans. The military or work crop is the easiest and shortest for training the ears to stand straight. Show crop ears have a long, curving shape. It takes several months for them to stand upright and almost a whole year of care.one of my dobes had just his ears cropped today at exactly 14 weeks. medium cropped. After reading some articles on the internet, i found out that it should be done at 7-10 weeks of age. and in some instances, at 12 weeks of age. My vet's explanation however was that, what matters is not the age but how the ears are developed prior to the time ...425 330-4100. Kim is a vet tech and doberman breeder and works with Dr Peterson I believe. There are some vet cropping in Washington State who have been cropping ear on several breeds for many years. But I would not have them crop any Doberman of mine. Good luck finding a really competent cropper. dobebugBacktape it. Tape the meat of the ear to the top of the post on the hair side if the ear and then pull that tape across the post and adhere it. Then put a couple of pieces of tape around the ear and post above the sore. You can also use Molefoam. Hard to …If they were meant to have "cropped" ears, they would be born like it. They are also born with long tails. If these "procedures" were for a Dobermans health, that would be different. I could never put my own Dobie through these awful mutilations, just because "I" want my dog to look fierce. Dobermans are sociable, family dogs, great with my ...Leave the ear taped up for 1-2 weeks. When removing the post, use rubbing alcohol or Uni-Solve by Smith and Nephew to loosen the tape to avoid pulling all the hair off his or her ears, then wash them carefully with soap and water. Clean them out with rubbing alcohol if they are dirty.Sure most ear croppers do not want to crop this late but the OP needs to consult with an expert ear cropper before any one of us would know for sure. Dr, Jezbera, an expert cropper in CA, has been mentioned a number of times for cropping pups later than the 8-12 week norm.gracieface. 4650 posts · Joined 2008. #17 · Jul 20, 2008. just came across this strand, there are definitely still some people out there with an artful hand for cropping. The hausenbrook pup owned by andrewred was cropped by Dr.Staples, in London Ontario, he does the majority of dobes in ontario as well as boxers and danes. The man is very good!6 posts · Joined 2014. #1 · Dec 6, 2014. Duma my 12 week old puppy got her ears cropped on Monday, she was fine until Wednesday evening she began running around and crashing into things and shaking her head. I held her so she would not hurt herself and after a few minutes she began to feel warm and had heavy breathing, I took her to the ...16519 posts · Joined 2005. #5 · Jun 22, 2021. No need to bother looking for an ear cropper; instead, search for an excellent breeder. A preservation breeder will send your puppy home to you with ears cropped and healed and will happily show you how to post ears as well. LadyDi, MeadowCat, falnfenix and 4 others.One Doberman has ears that are two different lengths and another one has very jagged edges. Powell only gives three options for cropping—short, medium, and tall. But we have no choice on bell, shape, or style. Allbrick pretty much does a short military crop only and also doesn’t give options for shape or style.Four dog breeds that are commonly tail docked and ear cropped (Doberman Pinscher, Miniature Schnauzer, Brussels Griffon, Boxer) were chosen as stimuli for this experiment. ... When participants were explicitly asked what explained different ear shape and tail length among dogs of the same breed slightly more, although a significant minority (42 ...The ear cropping should be done by a veterinarian with experience in ear cropping. To learn more about the ear cropping procedure in dogs, go to Ear Cropping for Dogs. A Doberman whose ears are not cropped takes on a very different appearance. In Dobermans, ear cropping contributes to the breed's identity and character.Distinctive Look: Ear cropping is believed to enhance the Doberman's appearance, giving them a more alert and intimidating expression. The upright ears contribute to the breed's unique and noble presence, distinguishing them from other dog breeds. 3. Symmetry: Cropped ears can help achieve a sense of symmetry and …Ear crop Length. My SO has had dobes for about 15yrs now, he had a dobe when I met him who has since passed away. I got my own dobe 6yrs ago in april, my dobe is a blue and tan with natural ears who I got from a BYB and yes I know now 6yrs later that was a mistake. The BYB was a littler sketchy but I had puppy fever and so far we have not had ...Doberman Specific Chat. Puppy Corner. Ear Crop. 5041 Views 26 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Lena&Kilo, Mar 6, 2010. R. Ripley ...October 13, 2023 by DR HARUN, DVM. Dogs' ears are cropped primarily for cosmetic reasons and to adhere to breed standards. Cropping involves surgically removing a portion of the ear to create a specific shape or appearance. This practice is most commonly seen in certain breeds like Doberman Pinschers, Boxers, and Great Danes.To see pictures of Ear Crops done by Dr. Anderson, click here. Smith Veterinary Hospital Phone: (952) 736-8278 Address: 1110 East Highway 13, Burnsville, MN 55337Pitbulls are prone to chronic ear infections because of their allergies, not ear shape. Clipping pitbull ears can make infections worse, not better. The pinna is important to keeping debris/water out of a dog's inner ear. Your dog will have no protection of their ear canal to keep dirt, bugs, and water out.Dog ear cropping is usually done whenever the pup is 8 to 10 weeks old. Ear cropping (or trimming) is an elective cosmetic surgical procedure that involves cutting and shaping the floppy part of a dog's ear (the ear pinna). This is done so the ear stands up and creates a look or standard for some dog breeds. The professional and social view ...The best ear crop for a Doberman is the one that stands. Doberman ear crops can be of different lengths and styles. They are dependent on the taste of the owner and the ability of the cosmetic veterinarian. The shorter the ears are cropped, the easier and faster they usually tend to stand.Nov 2, 2020 ... Dobermann ear cropped dogs take a huge amount of aftercare to ensure no infection sets in and the ears stand symmetrical.EAR CROP & TAIL DOCK. Dobermans are born with floppy ears and long tails, similar to a labrador or hound dog. The ears are cropped and tails docked so that they achieve the upright standing ear and the short tail. There can be a lot of controversy surrounding this topic so we want to be as educational and sensitive as we can.I'm looking for a vet in the Ft Worth area that someone has had a good experience with and would recommend to crop my puppies ears. ... here's a great thread with a bunch of different examples of different crop styles. ... 335-1234 (FAX) 972-335-1234 Lantana Animal Hospital This are the 2 vets in the dfw area that I know that does Doberman ears ...Careful to not get glue in the ear canal. Then, put 2-3 layers of glue on the adhesive side of the porous tape/backer rod like this. Again let the glue dry for a minute or 2. Finally, stick the backer rod deep into the ear canal and really pull the ear up as high you can. Sometimes, the pup will tilt his head at a weird angle so make sure the ...successful ear crops are great but ones that are botched by a bad crop or bad aftercare can ruin the looks of a doberman for life. I prefer natural ears to a botched crop job. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the cropped looked but if you have to gamble on the outcome of a crop job by using a non proven vet, stay natural, but if you have ...An uncropped Doberman's ears have a significantly different appearance. Therefore, ear cropping is essential to the identification and personality of the Doberman breed. It is typical for owners to identify their Dobermans by their cropped ears. Many people believe the ear crop style adds to the breed's distinctive look. However, the shape ...Welcome from the Pacific NW. While not cut in stone, the generally accepted age, that provides the greatest chance for obtaining a successful crop with nicely standing ears, is 7-12 weeks from birth. The vast majority of our pups' cropped have been facilitated and provided by the breeder, most commonly at just about 8 weeks.Careful to not get glue in the ear canal. Then, put 2-3 layers of glue on the adhesive side of the porous tape/backer rod like this. Again let the glue dry for a minute or 2. Finally, stick the backer rod deep into the ear canal and really pull the ear up as high you can. Sometimes, the pup will tilt his head at a weird angle so make sure the ...Doberman ear cropping is very common, and the ear cropping procedure is often performed on Dobie puppies around the age of 8 to 12 weeks. Under this process, their ears are trimmed, and the edges of their ears are stitched. Then the ears are tapped to a hard surface for several weeks while they heal.Cropped ears Doberman Pinscher puppy with uncropped ears. There are four common cropping styles you can use on your …Well I ended up taking him to the emergency vet. The girl there had a real attitude and said this is why you shouldn't crop ears for. It was bad, already infected, the ear was full of blood and he was in pain. The crop itself is botched, i love him anyways. I hate I put him through all of this. I'm so sick and have been crying all day.Oct 26, 2022 ... Posting Cropped Ears Doberman Cropping Tip ... another surgery. 10:07. Go to channel · How Much ... Safely Removing Ear Posts Doberman Ear Cropping ...Doberman ear crop bleeding - (Image Source: Pixabay.com) How long after ear cropping do stitches remain in place? SUTURES: At two different recheck visits*, the two sets of sutures (stitches) are typically removed. Seven days after surgery, the first set of sutures from the mid-ear to the tip are taken out. It will take 10 days after surgery ...
Now take a piece of tape, about two inches long, and wrap it around the “figure-eight” between the ears. This will prevent the tape from sticking to the puppy's head. Final step, cut the top of the straw, just above the top of the ear. This method provides a lightweight yet sturdy post for the Cropped Ears.. What is budget billing fpl
Me too, and I've been getting them since 1959 when I got my first Doberman. In a short period of time I learned one phrase in Spanish--"No hablo Englise." Which I used extensively when people, total strangers decided I should be repremanded for cropping my dogs ears. My SO at the time learned to say that I didn't speak Spanish …When you take his ears down, just clean them up and let then dry out and immediately repost. Just leave them down for maybe 20-30 mins to dry out. You will have to post till he is thru teething at six months at least and maybe longer. Some people have to post past a year but that is usually with a long show crop.Dragon Slaying Dobermans Incorporated member #44. wgsdluver. MaryAndDobes. 5291 posts · Joined 2005. #6 · Oct 22, 2009. Kmbertal is a large, commercial kennel breeding for profit, rather than for quality in conformation, health, temperament, working ability, etc. Many of their dogs are over-sized and possibly more …This how to wrap ears video demonstrates a simple way to wrap cropped ears including proper doberman ear cropping aftercare. We at Garretts Dobermans use the...DOBERMAN'S EAR CROP STYLES (COST: $475 ->Show Crop with Curve on Top an additional $150) -under $35 lbs and 10 weeks. Military Crop. it is the easiest ear cropping for training ears to stand upright. It looks like rounded triangles, relatively short and it has more base to it. This type of cropping is practical, and it offers a standard look.The wrong impression is given due to the fierce look when ears are cropped. Body language is affected, as the ear can give off emotional signs of how a dog is feeling. Let’s Keep Them Floppy The difference between cropped and naturally floppy ears. The original Dobermann breed and the Doberman Pinscher are all born with …Overlap each piece of tape at least 50% over the previous piece. Continue taping until you have reached the top of the ear and completely covered the post. 6. Support the base of the ear—Use 2-4 strips of tape to support the base of the ear, taping from back to front while gently lifting the ear straight up 1⁄2-1.”. 7.July 20th, 20221 CommentUncategorized. When cropping a Doberman’s ears, we may think there’s only one style. After all, most call it “ear cropping” or refer to the dog’s ears as cropped. However, owners select …Doberman Ear Cropping Clamp. Doberman ears are cropped to achieve the distinctive and breed-specific appearance. This practice aims to accentuate the Doberman's elegant and alert expression, contributing to their iconic and majestic look. Additionally, cropped ears may reduce the risk of ear infections and improve overall ear hygiene by ...Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.Step 1. Take one nylon cable tie and work on one ear at a time. A single 14″ long tie provides posting for both ears. Make sure that you acquire stiff nylon cable ties that are between ¼ " to ½ " (about 1 cm) wide, nothing narrower. They will act as main support posts for your puppy's ears.MaryAndDobes. 5292 posts · Joined 2005. #3 · Dec 1, 2006. The Quick Brace system is sold by House Of Hoytt, which is the number one reason not to buy it, IMO. It may very well have had nothing to do with the ease of getting the original poster's second dog's ears up. They all vary.30837 posts · Joined 2007. #13 · Jan 24, 2008. When I showed my dogs they were well liked by most other breeders, but, all commented on how short my dogs crop was. My line has, as the Canadian standard states, Ears, uncropped, should be small and neat and set high on the head. So I consider a small ear correct. The ear cropping should be done by a veterinarian with experience in ear cropping. To learn more about the ear cropping procedure in dogs, go to Ear Cropping for Dogs. A Doberman whose ears are not cropped takes on a very different appearance. In Dobermans, ear cropping contributes to the breed’s identity and character. And I've had puppies who came to me with ears on cups or foam blocks--carefully taped in place so no tape was over any part of the cropped ear edge. And the instructions were basically the same. Come back to have the sutures removed at about 7 to 10 days. Then leave the ears alone until entirely healed.Cropping is an art. If a vet wants to crop at 3 months you are most likely going to be looking at a terrible crop for as long as you have the dog. Most vets that actually know how to crop do it at 7 thru 9 wks with most cropping at 8 wks. Look Grant up on the internet, take my advice, and go to him.Jul 4, 2020 ... You do a beautiful job on that with a wonderful ear crop! My 6 month old pup has a lot of bell and slight irritation in right ear..
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