How to fix cvt judder - 5 posts · Joined 2013. #1 · Sep 26, 2013. The Nissan technical service bulletin 13-086 was issued on Sept 10th to (try to) address the shudder/judder problems in the CVT8HT which is in the V6 Altima and the Pathfinder. Nissan has not put this TSB up on their publications web site as of Sept 26th.

 
0 Post (s) Clutch Judder - comes and goes - 18-02-2011, 03:14 PM. I've a 2.0 TDI A4 Avant (2008 B7, BRE engine). When I bought it two years ago I noticed a horrendous clutch judder whilst in 1st gear accelerating swiftly from a start up a steepish hill. It being a new (to me) car at the time and under warranty I thought I'd get it back to .... Lindenhurst ny accident today

IMPORTANT: The following steps (1-8) are ONLY to separate the sealant of the side cover. The sub-assembly with belt and pulley CANNOT be removed from the CVT while in this orientation and will be removed from the case at a later step. Reposition the CVT on the work bench with the torque converter housing side down.VOTED BEST - Fixes CVT Judder - Owners Agree - Try it ! Xado UK Official UK Distributor (11017) Business Registered as business seller. Registered as a business seller. ... Very impressive. Time will tell whether the fix is a lasting one but so far so good. Verified purchase: Yes Condition: New Sold by: xadouk. by emmamorrisdavies. 18 Apr, 2019.Theory here is that code P0746 is for CVT Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) dirty/clogged/stuck (in general) - likely cause being dirty CVT fluid. Additional driving was to get good circulation of CVT fluid and hopefully clear the PCS. It worked.Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P17F1 Nissan code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour.CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) Service & Repair. A traditional automatic transmission uses a complex series of gears to transfer the engine’s power to the wheels. A CVT is a type of automatic transmission, but it has no gears at all. Instead, it uses a pulley and belt system to provide an unlimited range of gear ratios.The P17F1 code is a manufacturer-specific diagnostic trouble code (DTC). When this code is logged in Nissan models, it is defined as “CVT Judder”. The code indicates a problem with the continuously variable transmission (CVT) belt slip, leading to juddering or vibration during acceleration or while driving.What is the problem with the CVT gearbox?A continuously variable transmission (CVT) may be the most available option if you're searching for a new car to buy...Hello,Today we are going to how to fix Nissan CVT Juddering. Fault code P17F2.this is common issue on Nissan cars.please like share and subscribe.اليوم إن شا...Jul 24, 2023 ... Online Auto Repair Videos•8.5K views · 5:10. Go to channel · 2014 Nissan Altima Cvt Judder Code p17F1 problem Fixed. Best Car Fixes•9.9K views.Get a transmission flush done to solve the engine surging issues. It could greatly reduce overall transmission repair costs. Nissan Altima CVT Transmission Replacement Cost, Symptoms #7: Worn Out Clutch Discs. Last but not the least, check the clutch discs in your Nissan Altima. If they have worn down, this is a sign that your car …If you chose to opt out, please contact us at 1-855-678-6881 for more information. On March 23, 2022, a federal court in Tennessee finally approved a class action settlement involving an alleged CVT transmission defect. The deadline to opt-out of that settlement was February 22, 2022.It was performed under warranty. It did not fix the issue. After another trip or two and getting into an arguement with my service manager, I was finally told about SERVICE BULLETIN 13-053 which provides a corrective action of a 6-7 hour repair involving replacement of an updated transmission valve body kit and update to PGM-FI …2017 Nissan Rouge CVT Configuration For Fixing Judder Code (duplicate) (1).mp4 ...If you're experiencing juddering or shaking when you drive your Nissan Altima, then you may have a Transmission Judder Code (P17F1/P17F0) fixed. In this vide...Transmission Repair and Costs: Key Facts You Need to Know. Transmission repair costs depend on the type of transmission and the severity of the damage. Manual transmission repair for a new clutch costs between $800 to $1,500 while repairing a CVT transmission can cost up to $8,000.Labor: 1.0. The cost to diagnose the P17F0 Nissan code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour.- YouTube. Nissan Altima CVT Programming P17F0 Judder Code SOLVED! L1 Automotive Training. 32.5K subscribers. Subscribed. 273. 5.3K views 4 months ago. …Aug 30, 2022 ... ... Replacement. KG auto repair•6.5K views · 5:10. Go to channel · 2014 Nissan Altima Cvt Judder Code p17F1 problem Fixed. Best Car Fixes•9.8K views.The big judder is gone (after the S/W update and trans fluid change), but the car still doesn't drive smoothly in that zone between 25 and 40 mph. When I went for my oil change at the local Honda dealership recently, they seemed quite aware of the issue (they weren't a couple of years ago).Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P17F2 Nissan code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour.23917. Fair Repair Range. $4,756 - $6,514. Includes parts & labor for ZIP 23917. Dealer. $6056 - $6514. "Dealer" refers to service centers that specialize in one or two makes and sell those ...Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P17F1 Nissan code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour.1/14/2021. Models: 2013JX35. 2014-2018QX60. Summary: The customer reports a transmission judder (shake, shudder, single or multiple bumps or vibration) and one of these DTCs is stored: P17F0 - CVT_JUDDER (T/M INSPECTION). P17F1 - CVT_JUDDER (C/U INSPECTION). If a transmission judder (as described above) is not reported, this bulletin does not ...In order to diagnose a CVT judder code in your Nissan vehicle, you should start by using an OBD-II scanner to retrieve the trouble code. From there, you can …A concentrated friction modifier formulated specifically for INSTANTLY eliminating torque converter lock-up shudder. Provides up to 4x’s less wear than regular ATF. The original shudder fix. For long term benefit, use with LUBEGARD ATF Protectant P/N 60902 or LUBEGARD Platinum ATF Protectant P/N 63010. For use in ANY automatic transmission ...Transmission Shudder Causes #14: Malfunctioning Transmission Control Module. The TCM is the brain of the transmission. It controls the shifting of gears and the operation of the torque converter. If it’s malfunctioning, it can cause erratic shifting, leading to a transmission shudder.The P1890 diagnostic trouble code is most common Honda vehicles that are fitted with a Honda CVT transmission. The transmission problems related to this OBD2 code often present themselves at highway speeds, where the engine RPMs will increase, but the vehicle speed will not change. This is often due to a TCM programming issue.May 2, 2023 · About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ... When it comes to repairing a CVT (continuously variable transmission), one of the main concerns for car owners is the cost. CVT transmissions are known for their smooth and efficie...Its a known issue with the Nissan CVT. The problem has occured since about 40K miles, unfortunately Nissan considers it out of warranty and will not repair. 92000 mi: CVT hesitates in lower gears. Dealer says it feels normal for a CVT transmission. I can and will have a non dealer look into it. Nissan has many issues with the CVT in the heavier ...Labor: 1.0. The cost to diagnose the P17F2 code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour.CVT judder. Jump to Latest Follow ... To reduce or avoid emission control system damage: – do not drive at speeds above 45 mph (72 km/h). – avoid hard acceleration or deceleration. – avoid steep uphill grades. – if possible, reduce the amount of cargo being hauled or towed. The MIL may stop blinking and come on steady.Labor: 1.0. The cost to diagnose the P17F2 Nissan code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour.What is brake Shudder? Brake shudder (also known as brake judder) is the vibration felt through the steering wheel and suspension when the brakes are applied at certain speeds and pressures. It can vary from a barely noticeable vibration to a violent judder – experienced through either the brake pedal or steering wheel. Remove the parking rod from the detent plate. Rotate the parking rod vertically to align the tab on the parking rod (Figure 75) with the slot on the detent plate and then separate from the detent plate. 54. Remove the two (2) bolts shown in Figure 76, and then remove the reverse brake tube from the CVT. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...Install the input shaft assembly to the CVT case. Hold the tip of the input shaft so that the input shaft and the pump cover remain together. Confirm that the oil pump cover seats onto the CVT case completely. Do not draw the input shaft assembly down to the case with the mounting bolts or damage to the CVT may occur.Transmission shudder, also known as torque converter shudder, is a problem that can happen in vehicles. It causes the transmission to shake or tremble weirdly when the vehicle shifts into overdrive or when driving uphill in overdrive. The torque converter, a critical part that helps transmit power from the engine to the transmission, is often ...Nissan Mechanic: Roy Sheidenberger. Okay here is the flow chart for that code. that will need to have the control valve body and sub unit installed or replace the transmission. Ask Your Own Nissan Question. thanks.Understand the codes you may see when working on a CVT and the tools and software needed to diagnose and fix the issues. Watch Transtar's latest video, above, to learn more. Related Articles - Watch: Transmission filter basics - Watch: Transmission fluid specifications - GSP chief operating officer on the 4 P's of the company's5540 posts · Joined 2020. #2 · Jul 28, 2021. P1F70 is pretty much a "death code" for a CVT, it generally means there's already been belt and pulley damage. The '16~17's had some frankly awful valve body problems that were unique to '16~'17 (thankfully) but didn't really get straightened away for a couple of years.Jul 15, 2022 · Once drivers understand the causes of CVT judder, they can take the necessary steps to avoid and fix the issue. Inspecting the CVT System. When it comes to CVT judder, it’s important to inspect the system thoroughly before taking any steps towards fixing the problem. In this video, we'll be discussing the transmission judder code P17F0 and P0826 _u0164 and what the fix might be. If you're experiencing this issue with your...Apr 20, 2020 · Labor: 1.0. The cost to diagnose the P17F2 Nissan code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour. I saw that TSB 013-053 is out addressing the CVT judder and surge issue everyone seems to have. The TSB says that the PGM-FI software should be updated and the transmission valve body kit should be installed. The later means that the transmission will probably be dissembled and put back together later. In this sense I am concerned about dealer ...While explaining a sound can be a bit difficult, there are certainly some noises you don't want to hear. An engine rev and having the sound of accelerating fill your cabin might be a byproduct of a CVT transmission, loud metal clanking or banging is not. Loud metal noises can be a sign that something is wrong - like a bearing or belt going bad.#nissancvt #nissanroguecvt #cvtfailureCustomer was stating the rpm's are going up and fluctuating. Scanned for diagnostic trouble codes and found P17F0 CVT J...181 posts · Joined 2013. #14 · Nov 14, 2017. The CVTs on the 2012-present Versa sedans and 2014-present Versa Notes are the 2nd generation XTronic CVTs. These come with a sub-planetary gearset that acts as a 2-speed conventional automatic combined with the belt and pulleys of a CVT.Instructions to clear DTC P17F0 or P17F1. 1. Install the transmission or valve body and clear all other DTCs. 2. If DTC P17F0 does not clear then take the vehicle to a Nissan dealer for programming. There is a QR code on the range switch. This code indicates the correct programming file found on the OEM CD. Dealer programming with the correct ... P17F0 (CVT_JUDDER (T/M INSPECTION)) P17F1 (CVT_JUDDER (C/U INSPECTION)) NOTE: If a transmission judder (as described above) is not reported, this bulletin does not apply. If either P17F0 or P17F1 are not stored, this bulletin does not apply. ACTIONS: Perform the SERVICE PROCEDURE, starting on page 3. Review the Repair Flow Chart on the next page. 5/25 NTB15-015g 8. Select the Self Diagnostic Result tab, print the screen showing the VIN and DTC, and then attach the printout to the repair order. IMPORTANT: The screen printout MUST clearly show the VIN and DTC. a. If P17F0 is stored, replace the CVT assembly. For CVT assembly pre-approval, refer to page 25, CVT Assembly Replacement Approval Procedures.Jul 15, 2022 · Once drivers understand the causes of CVT judder, they can take the necessary steps to avoid and fix the issue. Inspecting the CVT System. When it comes to CVT judder, it’s important to inspect the system thoroughly before taking any steps towards fixing the problem. solar Discussion starter. 70 posts · Joined 2014. #1 · Jul 8, 2014. I saw a thread about the 2.5 cvt issues of stutter/judder, however I have the 2014 3.5 and notice at low rpm's a stutter/judder and also the steering wheel vibrating at highway speeds above around 60 mph.Hey everyone, I have a 2015 Murano but same CVT woes as the 15+ PF and 16+ Max. 70k on the car, never had any issues except for light shudder in the following circumstance: 15-18 mph. ~10% throttle. Slight incline. Took it in to the dealer today for the software update, and of course its P17F0 replace trans @ $4500.nissan cvt replaced and reprogrammed. This one made it further than most!Are you facing issues with the sound on your computer? Having audio problems can be frustrating, especially if you rely on your computer for work or entertainment. But don’t worry,...I have been told today by a Honda dealer that is a known issue with the CRV and occurs when there is moisture on the flywheel in cold weather,causing the judder. vehicles in hot/warm climates do not suffer the same issue. Honda are working on a fix,but as yet do not know how to alleviate it!!Okay if you have a misfire it can set a judder code also you need to fix that first and clear you codes and drive it to tell for sure if you need a new CVT also. I didn't know you had more issues like a misfire and coils issues. Lol it is a maxima with almost 140k on it.. I think a cvt replacement is inevitable.Remove the parking rod from the detent plate. Rotate the parking rod vertically to align the tab on the parking rod (Figure 75) with the slot on the detent plate and then separate from the detent plate. 54. Remove the two (2) bolts shown in Figure 76, and then remove the reverse brake tube from the CVT.Remove the parking rod from the detent plate. Rotate the parking rod vertically to align the tab on the parking rod (Figure 75) with the slot on the detent plate and then separate from the detent plate. 54. Remove the two (2) bolts shown in Figure 76, and then remove the reverse brake tube from the CVT.2015 NISSAN PATHFINDER. 3.5L. 6 CYL. 4WD. AUTOMATIC. 104,000 MILES. Vehicle is starting to do what Nissan's TSB states is a "judder". There are no stored DTCs in the vehicle's TCM. General repair shop states the transmission needs to be replaced but everything I find online says Nissan's fix in most cases is to replace the valve body.Watch: CVT diagnostic strategy and codes. Understand the codes you may see when working on a CVT and the tools and software needed to diagnose and fix the issues. Watch Transtar’s latest video, above, to learn more. Related Articles – Road to AAPEX Ep. 5: At the crossroad of automotive’s past and future – Watch: The basics of …2015 NISSAN PATHFINDER. 3.5L. 6 CYL. 4WD. AUTOMATIC. 104,000 MILES. Vehicle is starting to do what Nissan's TSB states is a "judder". There are no stored DTCs in the vehicle's TCM. General repair shop states the transmission needs to be replaced but everything I find online says Nissan's fix in most cases is to replace the valve body.In This Video we discuss a common Toyota transmission problem concerning the Torque Converter Shudder of 2012-2014 Toyota Camry and 2013-2015 Toyota RAV4.Thi...Now compare that to a vehicle with a judder complaint (figure 2). We can clearly see the judder happening. The input shaft signal (lavender line) shows the judder sensation in the form of a squiggly line. You can also see it in the output shaft sensor signal (green line).NTB15-014, Enhanced Diagnostic Logic For CVT Judder, has reprogramming instructions that may apply. ACTION Refer to the Repair Flow Chart on page 2 for CVT repair. CAUTION: Always handle the CVT and component assemblies carefully and with the appropriate lifting tools. IMPORTANT: The purpose of ACTION (above) is to give you a …NTB15-014, Enhanced Diagnostic Logic For CVT Judder, has reprogramming instructions that may apply. ACTION Refer to the Repair Flow Chart on page 2 for CVT repair. CAUTION: Always handle the CVT and component assemblies carefully and with the appropriate lifting tools. IMPORTANT: The purpose of ACTION (above) is to give you a quick idea of the ... About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ... #3 · Feb 8, 2019. Several members have had more than one transmission replaced. I doubt they did what they said, every case I've heard of is a full replacement or a new valve …How to fix car juddering when braking. If you catch this issue before it gets worse, you can clean both the disk and the surrounding surface - however, this is a temporary fix and after some time they will need replacing. Should the disk be damaged, it can be very dangerous to drive your vehicle.Hey everyone, I have a 2015 Murano but same CVT woes as the 15+ PF and 16+ Max. 70k on the car, never had any issues except for light shudder in the following circumstance: 15-18 mph. ~10% throttle. Slight incline. Took it in to the dealer today for the software update, and of course its P17F0 replace trans @ $4500.About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...In scientific experimentation, a fixed variable is a variable that remains constant throughout the experiment. A fixed variable is more commonly known as a control variable.#nissancvt #nissanroguecvt #cvtfailureCustomer was stating the rpm's are going up and fluctuating. Scanned for diagnostic trouble codes and found P17F0 CVT J...May 18, 2021 · CVT Clutch Judder Solved - Success!!! If you need to change your CVT fluid and filter, do the burnishing procedure first. Warm up the car to operating temp and powerbrake the car in Drive for 6-8 seconds. (Powerbraking is first stepping firmly on the brake and then applying full throttle to the engine. A transmission within a vehicle is responsible for changing gears as the vehicle is in motion and transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. The most common are automatic, m...Check out my social media!!!!!Snapchat-https://www.snapchat.com/add/javiNfacebook-https://www.facebook.com/regzastarInsta-https://www.instagram.com/nietojavi...CVT transmission; 172,172 miles; A D V E R T I S E M E N T S. Had judder when I bought it. Took it to AAMCO to replace the starter clutch. Costly repair. Judder returned. Took it back in. Problem ...Customer complaint was a transmission shudder. Scanned for diagnostic trouble codes and found P17F0 CVT Judder. Checking the transmission fluid found grey me...

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how to fix cvt judder

The cost to diagnose the P17F0 Infiniti code is 1.0 hour of labor. The diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops vary depending on the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. Most auto repair shops charge between $75 and $150 per hour. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ... NTB15-014, Enhanced Diagnostic Logic For CVT Judder, has reprogramming instructions that may apply. ACTION Refer to the Repair Flow Chart on page 2 for CVT repair. CAUTION: Always handle the CVT and component assemblies carefully and with the appropriate lifting tools. IMPORTANT: The purpose of ACTION (above) is to give you a …CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) Service & Repair. A traditional automatic transmission uses a complex series of gears to transfer the engine’s power to the wheels. A CVT is a type of automatic transmission, but it has no gears at all. Instead, it uses a pulley and belt system to provide an unlimited range of gear ratios.Install the input shaft assembly to the CVT case. Hold the tip of the input shaft so that the input shaft and the pump cover remain together. Confirm that the oil pump cover seats onto the CVT case completely. Do not draw the input shaft assembly down to the case with the mounting bolts or damage to the CVT may occur.Mar 20, 2021 · Additional driving was to get good circulation of CVT fluid and hopefully clear the PCS. It worked. Judder gone! All codes cleared!! I bought a case of the Ns-3 fluid and plan to drain another 5.5 quarts and refill to get the concentration of fresh fluid higher in the CVT. This beats CVT replacement which is where I thought this was going. CVT judder, oh what a vexing predicament for those who possess automobiles. It possesses the power to disrupt the fluidity and prowess of one’s transmission, causing great distress. A telltale sign of this malevolent force is a discernible vibration or tremor that permeates through the vehicle during acceleration or gear shifting.Summary: The customer reports a transmission judder (shake, shudder, single or multiple bumps or vibration). One of these DTCs is stored: P17F0 (CVT_JUDDER (T/M INSPECTION)); P17F1 (CVT_JUDDER (C/U INSPECTION)). If a transmission judder (as described above) is not reported, this bulletin does not apply. If either P17F0 or P17F1 are not stored ...A continuously variable transmission (CVT) drive belt by Benutzer:Thomas Ihle / CC BY-SA 3.0.The trouble with CVT transmission issues is that many of them are hard to identify. Many signs can point to a variety of problems because CVT systems have an infinite number of gear ratios and operate with two pulleys hence there is a significant risk of overheating.Labor: 1.0. To diagnose the P17F1 Nissan code, it typically requires 1.0 hour of labor. The specific diagnosis time and labor rates at auto repair shops can differ based on factors such as the location, make and model of the vehicle, and even the engine type. It is common for most auto repair shops to charge between $75 and $150 per hour.This is a five time concentrated friction modifier formulated specifically for eliminating transmission shudder problems instantly. In order to use it, the contents should be emptied directly into the ATF (automatic transmission fluid) via Filter Tube and then drive normally. The results will be immediate. instant shudder fixx is compatible ...This video shows how to program the cpt Judder into Nissan Pathfinder 2014.Best Car Fixes Recommends: Nissan accessories: https://amzn.to/3QKFbayBest Car Fix...In this video I will show you how I did the fix on my Mitsubishi Endeavor Transmission Shudder, I will also discuss the symptoms of torque converter shudder ...About 2 months ago my car developed an intermittent judder. I booked it in for a full service and asked for a new set of spark plugs. The judder continued. I went back to local garage, they plugged it in but no fault codes showing. They suggested dirty fuel as the cause and advised to rev the heck out of it. Judder still continued.2015 NISSAN PATHFINDER. 3.5L. 6 CYL. 4WD. AUTOMATIC. 104,000 MILES. Vehicle is starting to do what Nissan's TSB states is a "judder". There are no stored DTCs in the vehicle's TCM. General repair shop states the transmission needs to be replaced but everything I find online says Nissan's fix in most cases is to replace the valve body.Honda Cvt shudder - this is the third time we have subdued the common Honda shudder with an additive called 'Xado Revitalizant'...This is something we were r...Revving the engine higher and engaging at higher RPM makes things smoother. Heres what I did to fix the issue: Replaced the clutch and flywheel. That's right, I ditched the stock DMF and SAC in favor of a UUC solid flywheel and M5 sprung clutch disc. $1000 later the problem seemed to be gone but within a week it was back and now it is …The P17F1 code is a manufacturer-specific diagnostic trouble code (DTC). When this code is logged in Nissan models, it is defined as “CVT Judder”. The code indicates a problem with the continuously variable transmission (CVT) belt slip, leading to juddering or vibration during acceleration or while driving.About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...Is your toilet refusing to flush? Don’t panic. A malfunctioning toilet can be a frustrating problem, but in most cases, the issue can be easily resolved. Understanding the common r...My 2015 Murano started randomly juddering and vibrating the gas pedal when accelerating from a stop or when passing on the interstate. On a recent interstate drive, the RPM needle bounced around more than expected and it seemed like the transmission was slipping. Did some looking and came across a 10-page thread on these forums of other 2015 ....

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